One advantage of Golden Gate Seminary’s exotic location is that it gives Southern Baptist students hands-on experience with reaching a bizarre culture for Christ. Any lessons learned in Marin can then be applied to other alien locales like Papua New Guinea or France. The school’s Evangelism 101 class sought to impart such practical knowledge by sending us out into the community to share our faith. Course requirements included write-ups of two "evangelistic encounters" in which we had to document our efforts to win lost Marinites to the Lord. A daunting task, to be sure, but the class provided plenty of preparation. We spent weeks analyzing the characteristics of rival belief systems such as atheism, Mormonism, and the New Age movement. To be honest, this was my favorite part of the course. I enjoyed poking holes in other people’s beliefs and making snide comments like, "Why is no one channeling an ascended master named ‘Ted’?" But when the fun ended and we set off in search of evangelistic encounters, I found that hole-poking cuts both ways. Somehow I hooked up with a group that was doing street evangelism in Berkeley, which is not exactly going after the low-hanging fruit, I realize. But folks in Berkeley did prove more than willing to talk about spiritual issues, even if their views were a little, well, "out there." Take Ronald, a middle-aged man who was sipping coffee at a sidewalk table. After I offered him a booklet with a 4-point outline of the New Testament, Ronald stated that he had already taken a class on the Bible in college. In his opinion, the gospels presented an entertaining but illogical account of Jesus’ life. "Take the story of Jesus healing the man with a crippled hand," Ronald offered by way of example. "We are told that after seeing a withered limb become whole, the Pharisees immediately hatched an assassination plot. Does that seem like a reasonable response to an astounding miracle?" Here I mumbled something about religious leaders protecting their own turf, but Ronald had plenty more ammo. It was tough to squeeze it all into one "evangelistic encounter" report, in fact. I guess that’s the problem with poking holes. It’s only fun when you’re letting the air out of the other guy’s balloon.
Saturday, April 26, 2008
Baptist in Berkeley
Labels:
Cultural Divides,
Evangelism
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17 comments:
Thank you for having the integrity to leave the ministry. Would to God other unbelievers would follow your example. Too many "Christian" churches are being misled by unbelieving "pastors" pretending to be Christians.
Thanks for your comment, Gary. The pastors I have known over the years have, virtually without exception, been very sincere in their beliefs, and I'm sorry if your experience has been otherwise. I think the goal for all of us should be an honest presentation of who we are and what we believe (or don't believe)--which is what I'm trying to do here in my own squirrely way.
I enjoyed poking holes in other people’s beliefs and making snide comments like, "Why is no one channeling an ascended master named ‘Ted’?" But when the fun ended and we set off in search of evangelistic encounters, I found that hole-poking cuts both ways.
the story of my life.
glad to have found your blog, steve, by way of OutofUr. like you, i think, i've been cursed with an equally-weighted brain (left vs right). this leaves you, me, and maybe a few others out here all alone while everyone else goes to one side or the other. from our vantage point, the errors in each extreme are very obvious. and we get into back-and-forths on blog sites, and get called names, and then we swear off ever reading or leaving comments again...
but like a dog returning to its own vomit...
mike rucker
fairburn, georgia, usa
mikerucker.wordpress.com
Mike - Some might argue that neither side of my brain is functioning particularly well. But I'm glad you found MCJ and hope you will "return to the vomit" and comment again.
Kirk here - one of Steve's former sheep (baah). AHHH so glad to have found this. Extremely well written with thew same dry wit I remember so fondly.
I look forward to many future installments so that I can gain some insight into what made Steve such a great Pastor.
Yes Gary, he was a fantastic Pastor. Why? He actually listened to his congregation (it wasn't a one-way street), was honest, didn't judge (he did look at me very inquisitively from time to time), allowed/appreciated different viewpoints.
I don't believe he ever pretended anything. That would have been too easy.
- So Gary - Here's my two cents - if there were more Pastors like Steve - willing to stand back and question a thing or two - there would be more true followers of Jesus and less people playing church.
kirk,
I don't know Steve, but from some of the things I have read here, he seems like a very nice man. But, he has no business pastoring a church.
A pastor is supposed to be a believer in what the Bible says. Steve has said, in his profile, he believes the Bible has errors. He believes in Darwinian evolution, which by definition means that everything that is came about by chance and was not created by God. And he believes that homosexuality is not a sin, when God has said it is. Steve is a doubter, not a believer, and as such he is not qualified to pastor a church.
My comments are not meant to disparage Steve. I actually congratulate him for doing what many others won't do: admit their unbelief and get out of the ministry.
My old friend Kirk's comments are much appreciated--more than I can say.
And Gary, I understand your position, and we agree that I have no business pastoring a church that holds to beliefs I no longer embrace.
However, be careful of defining the word "Christian" as only those who agree with your interpretation of Scripture. Many sincere believers are rethinking issues like evolution and homosexuality, and though you may not agree with them, the authenticity of their faith is not open to question.
i understand gary's position, too.
and the position plays out quite well in gary's choice not to give anyone any way to contact him - no blogger profile, no url link, nothing.
at accenture, we called some manager types "seagulls" because they'd fly in out of nowhere, dump a lot of sh-t on everybody, and then fly back where they came from.
and when they left, we'd see that there was no way to contact him - no blogger profile, no url link, nothing...
btw, steve, your word verification deal is the toughest one to decipher i've ever come across... do you have to pay extra for that?
mike rucker
fairburn, georgia, usa
mikerucker.wordpress.com
Steve,
The authenticity of anyone's faith is open to question. In fact, the Bible tells us to examine ourselves to see if we are really believers or not. II Corinthians 13:5 "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves."
A lot of people think they are Christians when the evidence is, at best, very suspect. Better to make sure. And even if one looks at the evidence of their lives and their beliefs and concludes they aren't a believer, better to face the fact than to continue to be deceived. Even if one concludes they just can't believe the Bible, it is better to face that fact than to continue to pretend they are a believer.
mike rucker,
Here is my email address: garysbryson@aol.com
Gary - The verse you quoted says to "Examine yourselves" and "prove your own selves". It doesn't say to examine anyone else, which is the point I was making. You and I don't get to decide if anyone else's faith is authentic--we're only responsible for our own faith.
Steve,
A believer, by definition, is someone who believes certain things to be true.
John Spong calls himself a Christian. Or he used to. I'm not sure he still does. But if you look at what he says he believes, you will find little, if any, agreement with what the Bible says is true. So, to consider Spong a Christian would be to pervert the definition of the term.
Your notion that we can't know for sure who else is a believer or that it is improper to ask is a concept not found in Scripture.
That's where we part company, Gary. If I went to a fundamentalist church, I would probably disagree with the pastor on any number of points--but I would never say that he isn't a Christian (I'm assuming the pastor is a male, what with the fundamentalist disclaimer). You disagree with Bishop Spong on numerous issues but take things a step farther by making a judgment on his faith. That's your choice to make, I guess, but it's one you may wish to reflect on.
Steve,
You just said something that is anathema for Gary--self-contemplation. Gary refuses to review anything he believes or says. As far as the reasonable people over at Jesus Politics can tell, Gary honestly believes that his view is the very same as God's.
But as I hinted above, there are a good many thoughtful people out there, and I am very glad to see your blog appear. I look forward to reading more installments about your journey.
Steve,
Is there a fixed set of beliefs that someone would have to have in order for you to consider them a Christian? Or is your definition so broad that it can encompass almost anything?
Jesus, Paul, Peter, John the Baptist, John the Apostle, and some other believers in the New Testament had no problem distinguishing believers from nonbelievers.
Gary - At this point, it feels like we are both restating the same position in different ways, so I will ask that this be the last word on this particular issue (and as the comment moderator, I hope I won't have to enforce that request).
However, I will address the substance of your last comment, as you do raise a valid point. If the word "Christian" has no defined content, then the word becomes meaningless. I agree, and I certainly have my own thoughts on what makes a person a Christian. But the point I keep making is that I cannot impose my definition on everyone else. If a person chooses to call himself or herself a Christian, it is no skin off my nose whether their beliefs line up with mine or not. That is between them and God.
Again, thanks for dialoguing with me on this issue, but let's move on.
OH My Gosh I missed a whole debate - There is nothing I like more than a good debate…. I'll get better at this blog thing.
Conference call anyone?
My brother-in-law is a conservative pastor in Florida and we have this debate for 4-6 hours every Christmas. There is no last word. He lives my the very simple rules his denomination set for him and sees nothing outside his walls - Sad in my opinion.
Gary, regardless of what you think - I am a “believer”. A believer in Jesus Christ and everything He taught. Which, if we boil it all down, equates to “LOVE”. Love your neighbor as you love yourself. The greatest commandment is love.... Which as “Christians” (term I’m not fond of) we are not good at. As I see it we “Christians” like to point fingers, be self-righteous, and believe we are somehow above the fray.
I also believe, Steve is a believer. Although that is for God and no one else to figure out. Also, Steve never stated in his profile that he believes in Darwinism or that he believes homosexuality is not a sin. Gary twisted that. What Steve did state, and I quote “I could no longer stomach many popular evangelical tenets (the Bible is inerrant, homosexuality is a sin, Darwin was full of crap”. All he did was stand back and asked himself some questions. he thought for himself. Thank God! And I mean that literally.
Think. Think. Think. Think. It is not a sin
If we don’t man-up and ask some basic questions about our faith we are no better than the four legged creatures God blessed us with. God gave us a mind to think with. Use it. I do not believe He wants us to be blind and take the whole thing on faith(even though that is a major theme of Christianity).
I believe God loves me without judgment and has abundant grace and mercy. I don't need to know anything else.
So Steve - Feel free to sensor me -But I wanted the last word..... thanks for letting me rant!
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